Why Coaching Certification Isn’t Enough: Skills, Supervision & Inner Work

 Welcome back to Spirit Sherpa, where spiritual practitioners learn to master their gifts, grow their businesses, and change lives. I'm your host, Kelly Sparta, spiritual, uh, business coach. Yeah, I know what I am. Spiritual business coach and transformational shaman, and, uh, today we're gonna do something a little bit different.

So I have a friend, uh, who I go out walking with every Monday morning, and we have a great time. Uh, we hang out, we talk business, we talk personal stuff, we talk theater, and, uh, and we have... You know, we go for a long walk and then we have a coffee, which is one of the highlights of my week. And so, uh, one of the things that's been happening is I've been launching this new process for you guys, is I've been talking with her about, uh, the program that I'm designing, and she's been sharing her experiences from other coaching programs.

And, uh, we were having a conversation about, uh, about that yesterday, uh, 'cause she's a certified coach. And, um, the, the coaching piece, uh, wasn't fully formed for her. And, and so Barbara, I'm gonna have you come in and, and take that conversation over because, uh, I think it's r- uh, I think it's important for people to hear your perspective on it.

So welcome to the show, Barbara. Thank you. So glad to be here. Excited. So give the listeners a little bit of history. Uh, how, how did you end up in coaching? What, what sort of certifications do you have? That sort of thing. Well, my background is in theater, and I do a lot of work in communities wherever I am.

I came here, I came to Boquete from Boston, and, um, have not been working in those... Uh, I was a director here for eight years, but have not been working in the coaching field while I've been here, besides just personal conversation with my friends. Um, I got into coaching because I took a coaching class, and I wanted to be able to understand it, not only to apply to my life, but I wanted to be able to understand it to explain to other people.

And I took it with Debbie Ford, who at the time was incredibly popular, very well-known, a real star in the world of coaching. Um, I took it for a number of years. I went, uh, I went on a weekend- uh, two weekend retreats at the beginning of the coaching class with her and at the end of the coaching class with her, where we had to fly out to California and do our retreat there.

Um, it was all hands-on. It was very exciting I felt so aware and open after I took these weekends, and then I realized when I got back to the real world that I didn't have a connection with my inner self and the information that I'd been given. I didn't know how to make the connection, and how do I feel about this and how do I express myself to my clients through that feeling?

I knew it, but I didn't feel it, and I'm very tactile and very... Feeling is my strong suit, and I couldn't, um, in good faith share that work until I understood what was going on with me and how it affected my life. Um, because I had a very, uh, traumatizing-- I've had a very traumatizing life, and this was the first time working with coaching that I ever had the opportunity to actually look at what was going on and understand it.

So I made that a point. I took myself into that practice of learning how to make it part of my body, part of my life, and understand it. And when I met Kelly, Kelly was talking about that. She was talking abla- about connection with herself and connection with the people inside of themselves. It wasn't just a brain thing.

It was a physical thing. And it was the first time anybody who had worked in the coaching that I had worked with had ever discussed that. And I, I dr- I just fell madly in love, and I wanted to know everything there was to know, and it was, it was exciting to be able to put pieces together for the first time.

At 72, which is how old I am, it's an amazing thing to get a second chance to go through this experience, and it gives me a lot of hope for getting older and, uh, I love doing, I love doing the work. I love working with other people. I love feeling their feelings and holding them, holding them while they express themselves and whi- while they experience what's going on for them.

It's, um... I feel like I'm home when I do that work, just like I do when I do theater and I act and I direct. I feel very much at home. So Kelly helped me to reconnect with myself internally, which was exactly what I had been looking for for so long. And I coached... I was a coach. I had coach certification through the Ford Institute, and, um, I had a lot of clients.

We did it on the phone. We did it in person. I mean, any way it was working for them. Usually if they were in Boston or in the area that I was, we, we got together personally, which I really like doing more. But, um- I've been a coach as, almost as long as I've been f- in theater. So these are the two areas, and I've put coaching into my work on stage, and done work in front of audiences around coaching that didn't look like coaching.

It was a story that was told. Yeah. And it w- people got it. It was, it was cool to bring those two things together for me. So could I be any more excited? No. I love everything about my life right now, and mainly because I know Kelly and we work, and we're to- I enjoy being with her every Monday, and I'd do it every minute of every day if I could.

Oh, bless you. Um, so, if... Are you open to sharing, y- when we first met that first day, you had shared something about a ritual that you, or a space that you had been in where they took you partway in and then dropped you. Are you open... And then you and I completed the work together. Do you remember that? Yes.

Yeah. I, I do. You mean the very first time when we met? The very first time, yeah. I do remember that. Um-

I can say my background is... It's almost like it was meant to be. I was adopted, so I came into this world without a family. Of course, I was adopted very early. I had a family from when I was a baby, but in, in the long run, that family wasn't about family. It was about their individual, my parents' individual interests.

My father was a surgeon. My mother was a professor. They weren't interested in creating an environment for me and my sister that we could feel at home. They were interested in being who they were and we needed to fit into that. And my sister, uh, checked out by being an alcoholic when she was nine. And I checked out by being a people pleaser and I just was looking for love my whole life.

I got it- I've been in two very, very horrible narcissistic relationships long term. Um, narcissism, my parents were both narcissists and I didn't... I- it was just surviving during my, during my life. I just survived. It wasn't until I got married, but I was still in the survival place. I didn't feel confident about my abilities.

I didn't believe that I had anything to offer anybody. And coaching was, for me when I started taking coaching classes and having coaches work with me, I realized that I wasn't alone for the first time. Everybody else in my class, I had nine people that I went to school with at a private school for nine years.

Everybody in my class had different environments that they grew up in. Nobody was adopted and I didn't talk about myself in that way at all. I didn't talk about myself, but every day I brought that energy into the classroom and struggled with it for years. I didn't know how to express it. I didn't know how to tell anybody and I was embarrassed and ashamed.

Since the coaching, I've gotten clear on what was going on for me. My parents are both dead now. Um, I can't say that I could ever forgive them and I'm sure that a lot of what I picked up from them in my childhood was s- stuff that I brought into my mom time with my two daughters. We've talked a lot about that and, um, it hasn't made anything better.

They're all grown up now but they're still, um, they know where I came from and they understand what happened and they un- they know my, knew my parents and they knew how they were. So, um, coaching was the thing that put me back on track to find myself because I didn't know who I was. So how did you end up at that retreat or whatever it was where this, where you walked in and started on something and the woman didn't know what to do with you and just left you hanging?

Um, I went to the retreat because I wanted to be a certified coach, and I had been taking certification classes before that, and part of the ob- obligation at the end of the two back-to-back, uh, certification classes was I had to go to the workshop. And actually getting to meet Debbie Ford and seeing her and work and everything else, I really, uh...

It was an exciting opportunity. But the information, it was all information. We did a lot of exercises. We did a little, a lot of hands-on work, but it wasn't... I didn't know how to incorporate it. Nobody talked to me about th- when this comes up, this is what you can do. That's h- what I focus on when I'm working with clients is these are opportunities that you have to grow.

How do you do that? What happens in the moment? I needed that because I'm hands-on and because I'm, uh, I'm tactile. I really needed that direction. And whether people, other people needed it or not, there were probably 50 or 60 people there, all women, and, uh, nobody asked for clarification on that. When I got home, I realized I didn't have what I thought I, I would have after the experience.

I did get my certification, but I didn't understand how the work reflected in my growth, and that's what I wanted. Yeah, you felt like you didn't have... You had information, but you felt like you didn't have a way to actually implement it. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. I could say the words, but I needed, I needed the feelings- Yeah

in order to express it. Okay. And a lot of that comes from, from being able to see the coaching done and then un- understand why the coaching was done the way it was done, right? Exactly. Yeah. That's what I was missing. Yeah. I wanna know why, and that's what you've given me, Kelly, is a lot of whys, and I really...

It's changed the way I look at my life. And we'd been probably having coffee for I don't know how many months, but- Yeah, not many ... it, it was a small little bit in my life compared to all the other money and everything I spent. This is where the ch- this is where the change happened, with you. Yeah. Yeah, so the...

You know, we, we talked about some of the limitations that you felt in getting your certification, 'cause I find this is true with a lot of coaching programs. And I wanna be really clear, guys, Barbara took this class how many years ago? Geez. 10, 15? Yeah. So we don't know what they're doing now, and I'm not making any claims about what they're doing now.

Um, and this is just Barbara's experience. Other people may have different experiences. I just wanna be clear. Yes. Um, but this happens a lot with a lot of coaching programs and certifications where, uh, you are... You're given a whole bunch of information, but no implementation or very little implementation.

Uh, and it, the implementation is, you know, you practice with somebody else and you're not supervised per se. You know? Exactly. It's like how are you supposed to learn if you're not supervised? If, if you're just practicing and you're both practicing badly, how is that good? Exactly. So- Well said ... there should be, you know, supervision.

And, uh, and there should be, you know, if you're in... If you're a therapist... Now, I want to be really clear, we don't do therapy, and you shouldn't be doing therapy if you're a coach. That's what, not what coaching is. But therapists have therapists that they go to- Yes ... that they're expected to do their own work with and- Yes

and that are their supervisors. So they are both there for them to do their work, but also for them to ask questions about, you know, "I had a patient that was this thing or that thing." And, and that doesn't happen in most coaching- Yeah ... programs either. And so, you know, when- And the only person you can bounce things off of is your partner- Right

which is somebody else who doesn't have any way to connect the two. Yeah. Somebody else who's just as clueless as you are, right? So- Well said. Wait a minute. So, um, you know, I'm a big fan of, um... And, and you guys can thank Barbara, because she came up with the idea for me to include partnering, uh, people up in my programs, and I am definitely gonna be doing that as we step into the, the, uh, processes in the Spirit Guide School of Transformation.

And so you will get a partner. And having a partner is valid. It's useful. It's, it's somebody to check in with. It's somebody to be accountable- Oh ... to. It's somebody to, to have a camaraderie with, to sort of say, "Did you understand this?" "Oh, yeah, I got that. Here, let me tell you," blah, blah, blah. Yes. Oh- And, you know, or-

boy ... "No, I didn't get it either. Let's go talk to the coaches and find out," right? Um, and then the other thing you guys are gonna find, and I haven't announced the, the level yet for this, but when I do my spiritual coach certification program, which I will be doing, um, I do actually do all of that process with you guys.

So you get a, you get a video of a large group coaching call, and then you get a breakdown of exactly what was said and why. And, you know, I had a couple of students that I was training to be coaches at the time that I did the, the, the program, and that allows me to be able to expe- explain in detail why I said what I said, what I saw on the screen, what made me choose this versus that or this person versus that person- Wow

and how, how I went through the process. And so sometimes the debriefs can be twice as long as the coaching calls themselves because there's so much to unpack, right? And that is super valuable for being able to understand what's going on. And so the... You know, and in addition to that, then you also have a coach who is, uh, a skilled certified coach already supervising uh, your coaching.

So you practice with each other, but you do have to practice with the coach or turn in coaching calls to the coach, uh, in order for them to review it. So all of these things- That's such a great addition. Yeah. Oh, it's so important. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's crucial, right? Because- Yes ... you, if you aren't- Picking up on the right things.

You'll, you're never gonna know that unless somebody is looking at you going, "See, this is the place here where you missed that piece," right? Absolutely. And that's how you learn, right? Exactly. And so, you know, it's also a way to understand how you're appearing on camera, you know. A- and, you know, little things like is your nose just right above the bottom of the screen?

Then that's hard for people to connect with you, right? Is there, you know, half the room above your head? Well, that makes you feel like you're not really solidly in the screen, and that actually has an impact on the way that you're being perceived on there- Yeah ... and things like that. So, you know, there's, uh, there's technical issues, too, right?

And- Absolutely ... and then the way you phrase things and how you go through the pro- it's so important. And, and the thing that I'm, I come back to over and over again is that there are skills that you build from the foundation all the way up- Mm-hmm ... that layer one on top of each other, and this is one of the things that you and I keep talking about, is the layering of skills, right?

Yes. It's like, okay, I, I have people do Marco Polo check-ins on their first year program because people are uncomfortable on camera and looking at their own face, and the Marco Polo forces them to do that and get used to it, which makes making videos later in the process when they're ready to actually put themselves out on the internet, it makes it so much easier because they've got the practice- Ah

right? So- Brilliant ... every little piece is considered as we go through this. And, like, you know, I'm doing, I'm doing a program on Um, uh, divination, and then I'm doing a program on dream interpretation, and then we're doing a section on guided meditations and building your own guided meditations. Well- Wow

every single one of those builds on the one before it, right? Totally. Uh, in, in the readings, in the divination, you learn how to read the different symbols on the cards and things like that, and you get comfortable with the idea of symbology on the cards, and that, that introduces you to the language of symbology.

And the next level is the dream interpretation. Well, that introduces you to symbols on a whole different level, and you start to understand them at a deeper level. You start to understand how they relate to one another and how the, the person's personal symbols come into play and how that works. And then you take all of that information and you bring it into your creation of guided meditation systems, and now you're like, "Okay, I understand how the symbols work.

Now let me see how they get put together into a metaphor that turns into a guided meditation." And- Oh ... let me, let me- Yeah ... start with the end in mind and figure out what I want to accomplish and what the story arc is, and now I know how to understand that process, right? Mm-hmm. And so every single step builds on the last.

And so, and all of that builds into several years down the road where you do your master ritualist certification, where you're now designing rituals in real time with multiple practitioners, you know, serving as ritualist roles, and you're doing all of this. And so there's, there's this huge, um, support structure that's built from the bout- bottom up when you think through your process, and the spiritual coach certification sittin' right in the middle of it makes perfect sense because now in the ritual space you're gonna have people going into meltdown, you're gonna have people needing to process, you're gonna have people needing to do all sorts of things, and you need to have the skill set to do that.

Well, you did that in the spiritual coach certification, right? So every single step- Oh ... builds on the last. And you know, it, it's just- Totally ... if you're building, i- if you're, what you're creating is structurally sound. And I'm saying this not to toot my horn, I'm saying this for you guys who are thinking about building courses and thinking about building potentially a school, 'cause I've talked to two people in the last week who want to build a school.

If you're looking to build a school, you need to be thinking about what are the foundational elements that people need to do the next step And then how do those build into the larger picture, right? Yeah. And that's a, a relevant piece of the puzzle. It's, it's a crucial piece of the puzzle, in fact. Um, and it's not just about conveying information, it's about getting people comfortable with skillsets along the way.

Mm-hmm. And making sure they do their inner work at the same time, and this is the thing you and I have been talking about. Yes. Yeah. Doing your inner work. I mean, i- if we can't heal... Physician, heal thyself. If we can't heal ourselves, we can't teach it. Exactly. And we don't have any information to figure out what's going on for you.

So we need to go through the process ourselves in order to, to teach. Yes. And it's hard to find a good coach. It's hard to find a good leader to teach to that, you that at that level. Well, and it's not just about learning for yourself, because I mean, yes it is. Right. Because you are not safe to work with others until you are at a point where if somebody bashes on your buttons, you don't spin out of control.

If you- Well said ... if you become unpresent to the situation, if somebody hits your button, then you are not safe to work with others. Yeah. Because you need to be able to go oomf, and then say, "I'll put that away and deal with that later," and stay present with your client. If you can't do that, you're gonna be, uh, in...

You're in a position where the container that you're holding for them will not be solid. Mm. The work that you're doing with them will be tainted by your own crap that you're in the middle of at the same time as you're talking to them. And they will be able... So there are, if you work with smart people or highly intuitive people, they will inherently understand that if they bash your buttons, they don't have to deal with their own crap.

And so when you push them to a place, when you've got them right at that edge where they're gonna actually make a change and they freak out, they're gonna hit your buttons to get away from it. And then you- Totally ... every time someone steps up to that line and doesn't cross, they build the line of bricks between them and the n- the other side one layer higher.

And so you're actually damaging them when you do that. Well said. So you need to make sure that you are safe to work with clients, and that means you have to have done your inner work in order to get to that level. This is one of those things, and this is why in the first year that I work with people, I'm like, "Okay, we're gonna do a deep amount of inner work, and the work that I'm having you do with people is not transformational."

It is informational because you can do that work generally mostly safely with people because you're not trying to walk them through a transformative process. They're... You're just giving them information. I'm doing a reading, I'm doing a dream interpretation, I'm doing a guided meditation, which c- can be transformational, but generally is not, um, confrontationally transformational, and so therefore- Yeah

it's, it's generally safer, right? Um, and so the idea is that that gives you the way to, to do work in the world while you're getting to the point where you are no longer the wounded healer and you are safe to work with. And so by the mid- midway through the second year, you should absolutely be in that place where you're completely sovereign, you're completely ready, and you are safe to work with others, right?

And this is the other piece of the puzzle, is make sure that you are ethically designing your programs, right? And so ethically, I'm not having people do anything that they would be unsafe to do in the beginning. Mm. Right? And so this is how the process works. And, and when you're thinking about designing your systems, you wanna keep that in mind.

And as a practitioner, you need to be paying attention to, am I safe to work with people? Absolutely. Am I, you know, am I d- dangerous if I get triggered? Do, do I have a well of rage so deep that it's just gonna go blah, or am I gonna collapse and, and fall back and not hold the container and fall into myself and not be able to be present and, you know, 'cause that's the other side, right?

Yes. And either way is not great for a coaching environment. No. Yeah. And s- People have to feel safe, and they have to know that whatever they dis- disclose to you is safe between the two of you. Yes. And, you know, it's not something that we're gonna go out and talk about to other people. It's not something that we're gonna use as an example for other people.

This is private, and it's between the two of you. Well said. Yeah. So when you're doing work, um, you know, and not to say that you never talk about your clients a- as an example ever, but you don't make it identifiable to them. Exactly. Right? Yes. Um, you know, you have to say it in such a way that it's not clearly identifiable as XYZ person, right?

Um- And so because, you know, we all need to have case studies, we all need to have an, an, you know, a way to communicate about it. And, you know, if you're in a relationship with, uh, you know, if let's say you're, you're coaching somebody and then I'm coaching you, right? You need to be able to come to me and say, "Ah, I've got this problem."

Oh, yeah. "I have this question that came up and I don't know what to do." Well, I don't know who the client is, so there's no exposure there. Mm-hmm. But you can tell me specifically what's going on, and I can say, "Okay, give me a little history. What's going on with the client? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay- Mm-hmm

this is, this is where I would go with this next," right? Um, and then, you know, 30 years' worth of background of doing this, go figure. Um, so you know, it's like you're leveraging all of that. Yeah. And, you know, sometimes you just look at the client and go, "You know what? I don't have anything on this. I'm gonna talk to my coach and see what they say."

Absolutely. Because that is the most transparent and honest thing. And as a coaching client, I would be like, "Oh, great, you're not gonna blow smoke up my butt? I'm excited about that," you know? It's hopeful because it's rare. Right. It's like, you know, "I don't know" is a perfectly fine answer, so long as it's followed by, "Let me find out and get back to you."

Absolutely. You know? So that's, that's sort of where you, you go with that. So, um, you know, Barbara, we're- We've been talking a lot about different experiences in education out in the world, and, you know, the coaching communities that are giving information about s- structure, right? It's like, well, you, you approach it this way, you take this step, you do this thing, blah, blah, blah.

Mm-hmm. Structure is great, but if you're not getting implementation support, if you're not getting advice on what to do when things go south, right? Because they do.

Yes, they do. They do. Uh, if you're not getting... And, and you and I had that conversation, right? We had the conversation about what if you're standing up and teaching and somebody asks you a question and, and you don't have an answer, or if you're coaching and you don't have an answer. And so I'm gonna give you guys one, one piece of advice on air so that you can have it as an example, right?

So somebody asks you a question and you don't know the answer, or you, you haven't ever thought about it before. The first thing you do is you say, "Well, what do you think about it? What do you feel about it?" And their answering that question gives you time to think about or- how you... what you think about it, to think about whether you have an answer, to, to, you know, bring yourself into that space.

And sometimes they'll just answer the question themselves when you, when you reflect it back to them, and then they'll be fine. If not, you've had time to think about it, right? Mm-hmm. And now you either have an answer or you don't. And if you don't, you can say, "You know, this is, this is something that's sort of ongoing.

Um, I'm not feeling a solid answer on this. What I'm gonna ask you to do is go journal about it, uh, between now and the next call or for the next few days. Journal about it and then send me a message and let me know what your journaling has brought up. Um, ask your dreams to tell you things." You know, give them tools to be able to do- Mm-hmm

their own inner searching. Right. Which is valuable unto itself. Yes. Right? Because you're giving them a tool that, that they can use when you're not around, okay? And then you can then take that question and come to your coach and be like, "Okay, what do I do? This person asked this question. I don't have an answer.

What do I... blah, blah, blah. What is the answer?" Right? But in the meantime, you've given them something functional to do so they don't feel dropped. Exactly. And- Well said ... and good skill set to do it. And when they have any need for anything else, right? Mm-hmm. And so these are the sorts of things that, that you should be learning if you're, if you're learning in a coaching platform or if you're learning in any sort of platform that you're doing, um, you know what I mean?

'Cause this stuff applies if you're teaching a class or if you're doing a, uh, a reading or anything like that. You know, these are all things that may come up. And so- Having the skill set to be able to manage it is super valuable, right? One time when I was directing, uh, here, um, my ca- I had a, I had a f- a very large cast, and they disagreed with a lot of things with each other, and it was tense.

Yeah. And there was crisis going on. And so what I did was I put them in a circle the way we do when we do, you know, coaching circles. We were in a circle, and we talked about it. It was something that most of them had never had the experience of, and it really changed the whole trajectory of the way they worked with each other.

They heard each other. Of course, in the beginning I had to be very hands-on with making sure, "Now let Jimmy finish," and, you know, these are adults. And that was, that was the piece that was missing for them. It's nice to ha- coaching is good for a lot of things, uh, like you said, like teaching. There's so many opportunities to use it, and with yourself.

It's an important skill that we do, that we can use for ourselves. I think it's one of the most important s- uh, it may be the most important skill I've ever learned. Yeah. It's really been an, an exciting experience to live in that world. Yeah. It's interesting because it starts to infect all of your life, right?

Yes. Yes. So. I love it. I- speaking of the theater, when we did Mamma Mia, um, I was music director as well as, you know, starring in the show, but, um, I, I went and bought little plastic Oscar statuettes and printed their names and their role on them and put them on the statues. And at the end- Oh ... of the show at the cast party, I gave away these statuettes, and for each person I had something specific to say as part of the presentation about, about them and how they showed up and who they were.

And, and in ritual- Wow ... we call those touchstones, right? Yes. So I went into the event saying, "This is an Aphrodite tale," right? Mm-hmm. "And therefore it's an Aphrodite ritual." And so I walked in, and I had told everybody that, "This is an Aphrodite ritual that you're entering into, and this is what we're doing."

And the entire process, uh, everything sort of came out of that, and there were all kinds of interesting- Wow ... things that happened as a result, and it was, it was a very challenging production, but- Having that touchstone at the end saying you made it, right? This is your reminder- So invaluable ... that you made it, right?

And that's, that's very much a ritual process, right? Absolutely. Is to have that touchstone to keep hold of at the end. And so- And it creates connection in a way that other things don't. Absolutely. And sometimes the show comes together because the people click with each other, and sometimes they don't click with each other, but they still have to work together.

Yeah. And that ritual is something that we can rely on to bring everybody back to what the important piece is here, which is the show, and also finding a way to work it out with each other. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, all of these things, all of these things matter. And so, you know, we've been kind of all over the place with this episode.

We're kind of walking down multiple different paths. So if you think about... Because you and I have been talking about what, what I'm doing with the program and all of that. Um, if you think about next steps for you as a coach, what are the next steps for you? What do you feel you need to do to move yourself and/or your practice forward?

That's such a good question. Right now, um, the most important thing for me is getting present with what's true in my life, because I made some major changes in my life, and now I have to incorporate them and get peace with them. And the work that I've done over the years in coaching allows me to ask myself those questions and find out what I need to, how I can move forward this way.

Um- I find that every day I have interactions with people that allow me to use my knowledge of coaching to communicate with them, a lot of times in a very different way than anybody's ever communicated with them before. And so it stands out for them. They remember it, and they think, you know, there's more to this.

So whether I go on and train myself some more, and obviously I'm gonna take some of Kelly's classes, um, I wanna keep making it a daily business for myself as constantly looking inside and finding out what's going on for me, and then getting present with it and holding it. Just like you said, somebody says something to you when you're coaching them and you, you know, you go off on them, you can't do that.

You gotta stay present with yourself. Even if things are hard right now, you have to stay present with yourself, and it gives you the tools. Coaching gives you the tools to keep that center no matter what's going on. And I, uh, it's, it's a wonderful gift for ourselves and it's a wonderful gift for other people.

Did I answer you? Yes. Oh, okay. Good. I was just dancing in the v- twilight. Yeah. Yeah. We get there. It's all good. So So, um, anything else you'd like to share with the audience before we wrap up for the day?

I guess I, the most important thing that I want everybody to know is how powerful you are and how capable you are of doing this work with all of us. It's so... It's a gift that is rare. I've had a lot of different coaches w- work with me, and I've had people who have very high standing, such as the person I mentioned at the beginning of this conversation.

Very high standing. And it's easy to get, it's easy to, to get a, to, to get out of control with all the clients and all the classes and everything else. And the thing I know about Kelly that I've experienced is that she stays focused. She mo- i- it's almost like she weaves things in. As we continue conversation, she adds another little thing that we have to talk about, which opens the door to more things.

She leads us into a place where we can be completely truthful with ourselves and face what's going on in a very direct way. And that to me is unique in the coaching business. Even though it seems like that should be the primary thing that coaches do, they don't. Kelly does that. And I'm not just saying that to tout her, you know, to give her a lot of accolades.

She's, she deserves all of the accolades. I've worked with a lot of people who are professional coaches, and Kelly's the first person I've worked with in, in a c- in a friendship way that has given me the big picture and shown me a way to connect myself with that big picture, and that's what I, I didn't know that I didn't have until I met Kelly.

So a- all I can say is I'm gonna be taking those classes right along with you. I'll see you there. I'm excited. Awesome. Well, thank you for that. Absolutely. I appreciate that. Uh, and, uh, guys, if you got something out of this episode or any episode, please share it with a friend. Please remember to like, subscribe, and share with, uh, with everybody you know.

It's how we grow the podcast, it's how we grow people learning about all these important pieces and factors that go into everything. And, uh, thank you so much for listening. As per usual, you guys are the best. I love you. And remember, what you focus on expands. What you intend is what you create, so choose wisely.

Mm-hmm. Namaste.