Wholistic Firing - Hire Slow, Fire Fast

 Welcome back. I'm your host, Kelle Sparta, transformational shaman, spiritual business coach. I'm here as always with my best friend in Boquete, Katherine Loranger, Loranger, I'll get it. And Katherine, Katherine with a K spiritual business coach, kick ass, spiritual business coach.

And today we are going to finish our wholistic hiring series. We're going to talk about firing also known as don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Right. And so the, you know, rule of thumb for most business leadership classes out there is higher, slow fire fast. That's the rule of thumb.

So, you know, if, if you're When you're hiring somebody, give it, give them pieces and move as you go. And, you know, see if they're going to make it before you hand them the whole enchilada. But on the way out is like the minute you see those red flags coming up and you know that they're going to be a problem, you need to get rid of them quick before they do too much damage.

Right. Don't over it. Yeah. And that you're not investing all that energy into it too. Right. Yeah. Well, and the time to train them and all the other stuff, right? Mm-hmm . So you know, take a, you know, I'm, I just realized I forgot to put my do not disturb on, so I'm doing that. And so the you know, when we're, when we're looking at firing, let's talk about red flags.

So, do you have some ideas about the red flag to look for like dishonesty padding time. Mm-hmm . Screwing things up and not taking accountability. Yeah, sorry, that was a question I was kind of unprepared for. So sorry, I'll add something, you know, I'm not not getting along with other team members.

Things that you There are some things that you can't teach that you need. So like being able to understand if you understand something or not, being able to think through things if you if you recognize that you have a job that requires a lot of independent thinking and they are not like a values incongruency.

Another one. Hard selling your soft sell people that would not go well. Yeah. I'm kind of like mentally going back in my mind over people I've had to terminate and then people I knew I had to terminate but didn't do it quick enough and kind of what were those, yeah. Yeah. Lack of attention to detail for a detail oriented job, you know.

Lack of ability to have empathy in a customer facing job. Not able to take feedback. Oh, big one. Yeah. Mm hmm. You know, the, yeah, just anything like that. Someone who's super defensive. Oh, yeah. Someone who's really ego driven can also be a bit of an issue, super sensitive, can't be in the corporate environment or, you know, the company environment without having problem, you know there are different people who are, and, and sometimes it's an environment that yeah.

And I'm not saying to foster this kind of environment, but I'm remembering back when I was being hired as a manager for a real estate office. You know, I had an the guy who owned the company looked at me and said, don't come here if you don't like to be sexually harassed. And I looked at him and said, if you can make me feel sexually harassed I will give you a prize.

Because he was, he was. Brain dead. He was just not that guy, right? He was just not that guy, but he liked to make dirty jokes, and he just didn't want to deal with the bullshit of, you know, somebody who didn't want to be around dirty jokes. I'm like, good. Yeah. I'm like, I'm good. We're fine. You won't bother me.

But that's someone who is sexually harassing people. Like, that's also a red flag to be clear, but I wasn't a red flag. Yeah. I didn't have a problem with it at the time, but you know, it's, it's like there are environments that people can live with and environments that they can't. Right. And so, you know, if you know, your environment is a high stress environment and people are not high stress people, you need to be clear about that.

I had a client that I worked with years ago who was a real estate agent who was hiring assistants. So she kept talking her clients into being her assistants. And then she would go away on a retreat to, you know, some sort of workshop that she had to attend. And then they would quit while she was gone.

Every time we were in this program together, every quarter and every quarter people were quitting. And so I said, I'm coming. You're going to pay for my ticket. I'm coming. I'm going to hire you an assistant. Right. And what I did was because I knew she was a high intensity, high stress person who just was going to throw things at people.

I I undersold the position. I said, this is going to be really hard. It's going to be a lot of work. It's going to be high stress. You're going to be constantly getting whacked in the face with new things. You're going to have to be able to adapt and roll on your feet and do the whole thing. I mean, I made it sound like a really, really miserable job.

And the people who were still incited about it We're the ones who are going to survive it. And in fact, we hired her as somebody and then seven years later, the last time I checked in they were still working together. So realistic expectations. Realistic expectations. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. And so, you know, it's that, that whole.

Thing of be honest with yourself about who you are. You know, if you're somebody who is Super chill and easy going and you know Says everything in in great detail and is great and mentoring people and whatever Fantastic, then you're going to be an easier boss to work for But if you're somebody who's running around like a chicken with your head cut off, you've constantly got a million projects going, you've got to be able to throw things at somebody and have them know what they understand and what they don't understand and be able to ask questions efficiently and keep track of the details and whatever.

If that's who you are, then that you need to hire for that. And if they're not that person, if that shows up, you need to let them go. Right. So that's what I think. I think when you get to the point where you realize, okay, this is not the right person for this position. Yeah. You want to have set it up like in the hiring process.

So in the, in your, you know, kind of like agreement, your work agreement, you've, you've got determination clause or you've got, you know, you've kind of got some language in there. About how that works and if it's a contractor versus an employee your obligations are are different for sure So you want to make sure that you are in line with those obligations, but you also want to make it You want to do it quickly?

Mm hmm. You want to be respectful and I mean the title is don't let the door hit you in the ass and that's kind of Tongue in cheek, right? You don't want to a jerky jerk about how you terminate someone. Like you need to be in your integrity. It's not about making it personal. It's, it's not about kind of getting into things and trying to like hash it out because when you've made the decision, the decision has been made, right?

Yeah. And often somebody, when it comes to that point, they know it's not working out. Right. So you can kind of start out. So just, you know, wanting to check in. How do you think things are going here? Right. From your perspective. And then you're going to get a sense of it. And, and at that point, like, you know, you're terminating them, but often people are going to know themselves that this is not the right fit.

And through that conversation, it, it comes to like a mutual agreement where that's, it's time for them to move on to something different. Yes. And. There's a, so I learned a connection piece at the Human Awareness Institute, and they say that you, you don't clear with someone that you don't want to get closer to.

And so, you know, you don't go through the trouble of saying the, these are the problems and this is the issue and whatever if you're not trying to continue the relationship. Exactly. That applies in this firing scenario. It's. This is not working out. Your probation period is complete. We are not continuing to hire you or whatever, you know, or we've hired you and we're realizing it's not a good fit.

So, you know, effective immediately or, you know, with ever, whatever timeframe you you're done. Right. And generally, I would, I would recommend that it's immediate, right, especially people still have you don't want to have people who are terminated having access to your passwords or accounts or information or any of that stuff.

So you also want to have set it up ahead of time so that they are like, yes, exactly right that you like. Yeah, yeah. And that it's happening. It's happening quickly. So you don't want to like terminate their access. And then a couple days later, then like have the conversation with them because that's Yeah, that's just no bueno.

Yeah. No, yeah, and this is why in the next episode we're going to talk about some of the software and why you use the software you do and things like that. So but you want to make the decision and, and implement immediately because that way, you know, you clean break, right? And if you decide to pay them through the end of the period, it's up to you, but, you know, I mean, if it's, if it's not a firing for cause, but just a bad fit and you want to give them a little extra pay to give them a little cushion to get where they're going, that's your call, but do not leave them with access.

Yeah. Exactly. That's what I was talking about earlier. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I just like lost that. There was a thought and it's like, buh bye, buh bye now, I'm out playing in the sunshine. Here I am with the butterflies in the sunshine. So. Yeah. I mentioned software. Maybe that was the thing. No, it was before. It was before that, but it'll come back if it's, if it's meant to be said, it'll come back.

Clearing and, you know, staying in relation. Oh, right. Okay. This. Yeah. Okay. So what it was is. I will, I will see with my clients sometimes that they are They delay firing because they don't, they're worried then that they don't have someone else to take on that work, right? So, so with that, you want to always have someone on the bench, right?

So you're always, you know, kind of Maybe actively or inactively recruiting, you're always keeping an eye out for who you could hire into that position. You're always having kind of a bench lineup of people that could fill in that because you don't want to put yourself in a position where you're tolerating bad behavior, bad fit, bad quality of work, because you're afraid it's going to fall back on you.

And that's a big issue. It really is, because, you know, when, when the person quit in the middle of my, my I don't remember if it was the show or the retreat, but somebody quit in the middle of something, and then I was like, ah, crap, right? So I didn't have anybody in the background. And I'm just sitting there.

Well, I did. I have my existing assistant who had to come and take over everything. But yeah, if she quit. Then all, all would be a pain in my ass, but mm-hmm . This is how these things go. But yeah, it's, it's very much about, and, and we get kind of codependent. We can about, you know, oh, well, what happens if they don't have any, any money coming in and whatever, whatever.

Like if they know it's not working, they're already out looking for another job. Don't, don't kid yourself. Mm-hmm . Yeah. You know? Yeah. They, they're already. Watching not your responsibility. Like you don't wanna be, you know, cold hearted, but it's also you. You need to be clear with the boundaries. Yeah.

You're not their parent, you're their, and you're not running a charity, you're not running a charity, you're running a business. Correct. Mm-hmm . All of these things. Yeah. So. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's like that. And, and again, this is where a coach, like your coach can come in to support you in actually practicing a language, right?

So when you're, if you haven't done a lot of this before, and maybe you're nervous as any kind of normal person would be it can be really helpful to, brainstorm, practice it, do some role playing with yourself even or a friend or your coach about how you're going to speak it, how you're going to language it, so that you can really get super solid state in your decision and in how you're going to communicate that decision.

Well, and if you're actually hiring in the U. S. and firing in the U. S., Then you need to know what the laws are if you're actually employing someone as opposed to having an independent contractor, because the rules are very different for that, right? Same in Canada. Yeah. Yeah. If you're actually employing someone, there are specific rules that you have to follow in some states, and there are good policy rules to follow in general around HR practices, right?

So, for instance, you never say, I'm sorry, because that implies it's your fault. And, you know, you want to say, I'm sorry, right, but you, you cannot say, I'm sorry, because they're that, that implies a level of fault that could result in legal action. If you are not careful, right. That's as an, as an employee, if they're an employee, if they're an employee, and they're an employee, you don't say, yeah.

Okay. You just say, you know, this is the way it is. And, you know, but the the. If it's a, if it's a contractor, you just say, hey, your contract is over, right? Because you, they're not an employee, they don't, they don't have that. Most states, my understanding, and I'm not an expert, so do your own research, but my understanding is that most states these days are right to work states.

They're, they're, they're no fault states. So you, there's no, no requirement to give any notice in either direction, and It just is what it is. So you, but it's a good idea if you're going to fire somebody and it's not really early in the process where you can say, look, it just didn't work out that, and, and if they are a protected class, you know, if they're pregnant or they're sick or they got hurt on the job or, you know, they, they're a minority or, you know, whatever, whatever.

Then you need to really document the reason for the firing just to cover your butt in case they decide to sue later. And this is, again, an employee situation. Contractors, that's not the same, right? Contractors, it's understood to be a contract period, right? So, you know, but all of these things. So there are outsourced HR, firms out there that you can, you know, pay a monthly fee and they'll give you advice on how to do HR stuff.

For most small business owners, it's not generally necessary for the micro business owners, like, you know, if you're a solo entrepreneur or just solo a person in one or two but you're in that scenario, you're unlikely to be actually employing anyone. You're, you're more likely to be working with contractors, right?

So, but if you are employing people it might not be a bad idea to look up the the fractional HR department people. Because they can help you navigate that. Yeah, and you can also connect with your local chamber of commerce for guidance or suggestions in terms of resources to to support you in that and And this all I mean, this is this is kind of why we're doing a whole series on it because it is a it's a process Right, so you want to be thinking about that at the get go am I bringing on an employee?

I bring on a contractor. Are they in the country I live in? Are they overseas? What are the kind of rights and obligations on both parties? And then how do I how do I navigate that? And so from from your end, if you're hiring internationally from your end, it needs to be clear. That it is a contract because you don't want to have to be paying taxes in other countries because you employed someone that it, but it's a contractor position, right, that they have their own thing.

So all of these things and more, right? So Okay. I think that's what I've got for this episode. Yep. You're nodding. So, all right, guys, don't forget to like, subscribe and share. This, this completes our holistic hiring series. And we will be talking more about the software that we use and things like that going forward in the next episode.

So stay tuned for that and remember that what you focus on expands and what you intend is what you create. So choose wisely. Have a great one.